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MTS Bob Ross Paint-Along Night - posted on 4th Sep 2017 at 10:54 PM
Replies: 89 (Who?), Viewed: 5107 times.
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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 3:30 AM Last edited by billielith : 22nd Jul 2017 at 4:00 AM.
Default Tywin Lannister, help? I am starting over.
HEAR ME ROAR!
Tywin Lannister, king of the "jungle" in Game of Thrones. Status: deceased. Still awesome. Possibly my favourite character of the series, for better or worse.
(I am making the TV show version of Tywin, not the books' version, there are important differences)


Hi
I hope you are well, everyone.
As Game of Thrones is back, so am I, working on my sim of Tywin. I am hoping he could become my best sim so far. Actor Charles Dance, who has been portraying him in the TV series, is turning 71 years old on October 10 of this year; this is the ultimate deadline I am giving myself to finish the sim at perfection (if I can), post it online and possibly tell Mr. Dance himself about it.

Some of you could be seeing this post for a second time. I am getting old. I repeat myself. Also, my computer died on me while I was working on my previous version of him. I kept the pic that was here and all your suggestions (and the ones from the people on the group of GoT fans) but I am starting over. Care to help?

"More this, less that", ALL CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS AND CRITICS ARE WELCOME.


Here is a picture of where I am at - my CC tools are not on my PC at the moment so this is even less advanced than my previous one. Bear with me.
I plan on making him an adult with grey hair, because there is a ton more stuff out there for adult sims than for elder sims. But I will make an elder version available, as I like to do. Also, if I am able to, I'll make his "hand of the king" black outfit (or I'll find it online and join it, lol).

All the pictures I have so far are in the same screenshot. I will take more and better screenshots as I go. Thanks for your patience.

If some of you would like to have my unfinished, earlier versions of him, of which I'll post pictures here as I advance the work, I will make them all available after I post my final version.
Thanks to all!


Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
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Scholar
Original Poster
#2 Old 30th Jul 2017 at 5:27 PM
New version today. :D

I did a couple hours of tweaking, added some CC. I also tried Nopke's sliders and lots of content I never tried before. It's an improvement already. If you notice anything missing or too much, now's the time.

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
just a girl
#3 Old 30th Jul 2017 at 7:51 PM
Wow, big improvement!
I don't know much about face sculpting in Sims 2, so ignore me if I say something out of place.
I think his head should be a little less narrow and I'm not sure about upper eyelids. But I love the overall look.

Testers wellcome on Electrical box & Cheap rent & Fertile land
Functional sofa bed is ready to be tested as well
Scholar
Original Poster
#4 Old 31st Jul 2017 at 5:05 AM
I won't ignore you, every bit of advice can help nudge me in the right direction. Right now I feel like he looks like a 70 year old man, I got that, but I don't feel this is Tywin yet.

Width of the face and eyelids. Thank you, I will work on that. I am not entirely satisfied of his nose, cheekbones and hair, so I will work on that too.

Adding width to a face without deforming everything else is a struggle in Sims 2, but I did it before, maybe I can do it again.

Next update soon.

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Scholar
Original Poster
#5 Old 31st Jul 2017 at 3:57 PM
Update


Face is a bit wider
Nose tip is a bit narrower
Changed the upper eyelid
Added more eye pockets
Added a wrinkle between the eyebrows
Gave the chin a V shape some more
Increased space between eyes
Reduced the forehead a little


If any of my changes was a mistake please tell me. Otherwise tell me if there's anything more that needs to be added or removed. I didn't touch up his hair yet, I'll do that when his face sculpt is entirely finished. I'll also start working on his "hand of the king" outfit when the hair is done and entirely finished.

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
just a girl
#6 Old 31st Jul 2017 at 7:53 PM
I still find sim's face narrow compared to real. And I think the eyes are too big.



Also, I don't think Mr. Dance's chin is V-shaped. It has kind of squareness to it. Although, the beard rounds it up, somewhat. So if you can't repeat that shape in Sims 2, the beard will soften the differences.



Keep it up
Screenshots

Testers wellcome on Electrical box & Cheap rent & Fertile land
Functional sofa bed is ready to be tested as well
Scholar
Original Poster
#7 Old 1st Aug 2017 at 1:54 PM
Thank you. Your analysis and input are very precious!
And indeed, you're right about the eyes, they aren't quite right as they are. Too deep, too dark around them, too big. As for Mr. Dance's face shape, it is indeed not quite a V-shape, it does have some squareness to it, you are right about that too.

Meanwhile, narrow faces are a bit of Sims 2's handicap, they are very difficult to get much wider without deforming all the work, but I will see if I can add an illusion of width by making the eyes, nose, mouth narrower/smaller.

I'll be back with an update soon.

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Scholar
Original Poster
#8 Old 1st Aug 2017 at 3:43 PM
Update, tweaked the eyes, face shape, and many other details. I tried to widen the face but I am at the limit. I tried to make the "illusion of width" like I mentioned above... I feel like I lost Tywin's severity along the way. Tywin has an attitude I would really want to be able to put in the face of the sim.

Anyways, here it goes. I don't know if I am closer to my goal or further, lol.

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
just a girl
#9 Old 1st Aug 2017 at 5:18 PM
What I liked about the previous version is that the cheekbone created such shading that made the face look skinnier. The "hollow" kind of added to overall Tywin's severity. In v.4 he has more chubby cheeks. Although, v.3 wasn't exactly Mr. Dance's cheekbone either, if we look at his profile. If you could make less prominent sharper cheakbones, and somehow retain the shading (maybe, through custom overlay or beard?).



Also, I liked the shape of the eyes and brows better, it's just the eyes needed to be a bit smaller. Those eyes produced sharper look.

***

By the way, v.2 and v.3 sims are great faces by themselves, irrespective of resemblance with Tywin. I would download them already =)
Screenshots

Testers wellcome on Electrical box & Cheap rent & Fertile land
Functional sofa bed is ready to be tested as well
Scholar
Original Poster
#10 Old 7th Aug 2017 at 2:31 PM Last edited by billielith : 7th Aug 2017 at 4:42 PM.
Hi again, sorry about the delay, family is keeping me busy, lol.

Thank you for your compliments, it is kind of you. I will make several "milestone" sims available once the finished Tywin is online.
The inconvenient with sculpting faces in Sims 2 is that many tools are (were, lol) grouped. When one tries to widen a face, the face will often look more fat as well, even without touching the cheeks themselves. It is difficult to work on one feature without affecting others.

I'll work on what you said - hollow cheeks, eyes, brows - and come back with an update soon.

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Scholar
Original Poster
#11 Old 7th Aug 2017 at 3:03 PM Last edited by billielith : 7th Aug 2017 at 5:03 PM.
Update
I've worked back from V3 to make the next version. Thanks again for your input! Very precious!

The differences are subtle between V3 and V5, but the eyes are a bit smaller and closer to the brow, the face is a bit wider without becoming puffy, I've added the hollow cheek you mentioned, I changed the eye color and tried blue - although his eyes don't look blue on some pictures, Tywin is said to have blue eyes - edited his wrinkles - at the eyes, on the forehead.

As for "less prominent cheekbones", indeed, completely, but if I go too far with this, I lose his pockets under eyes. In fact I already lost a lot of the puffiness there, apparently they don't expect a face to have small/high cheekbones and big pockets under their eyes. Grouped features. :/

EDIT
I changed his pockets-under-eyes, I edited the ones I had to make them a bit bigger. I also changed his skintone, he was a bit too yellow. I also changed the ratio eye/brows/nose/mouth vs face a bit, in v3 the features were a bit too big, they are closer to the middle now. I feel like this is closer to his face proportions.

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
just a girl
#12 Old 7th Aug 2017 at 8:12 PM
Don't you think, v5 looks kind of worried or sad? I can't quite put my finger on it... It's probably the eyebrows + wrinkles combination.
Anyway, I'd say, you're getting closer
I agree, proportions are better. Still narrow, though. I'm sorry about the grouped features thing. Well, maybe new hair will make a difference to the head shape. It usually does more for overall resemblance than face features do.

Testers wellcome on Electrical box & Cheap rent & Fertile land
Functional sofa bed is ready to be tested as well
Lab Assistant
#13 Old 8th Aug 2017 at 5:12 AM
The "problem" with the nose can't be repaired...as far as I know.... With the real person, his nose trails off a bit to his right.... we don't have the option of putting "asymmetry" into a sim..... bummer
Scholar
Original Poster
#14 Old 8th Aug 2017 at 5:58 AM Last edited by billielith : 8th Aug 2017 at 6:23 AM.
Lamare, thanks for sticking with me, and RedSonja hi!

Worried or sad, indeed now that you mention it. I think they might be a bit too arched, on Mr Dance they are a little more straight, I'll work on that. Narrowness this is the best I can get in Sims 2. I wish someone could make a slider for that, lol.

As for the hair, you are right, problem is there is not much for "elderly" styles out there, everyone seems to focus solely on anime hair or emo hair, lol. Myself I never learned to mesh, so I won't be able to get a better shape but once I am completely done with the face sculpt, I'll try editing the hair texture to get closer to how Mr. Dance combs them.

As for the nose, his does trail a little to his right, I can't get that, but I believe I might have made it a bit too small when I edited the proportions. I'll work on that.

Thanks for the help, I really enjoy this team work. Update soon! :D

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Scholar
Original Poster
#15 Old 8th Aug 2017 at 6:38 AM Last edited by billielith : 12th Aug 2017 at 2:11 PM.
Update, v6 of the face sculpt
I edited the brows and nose. Now instead of looking sad or worried, he looks filled with determination, lol.
His face sculpt is not finished, is it?






And now I'll make a test in-game to see if his teeth go through his lips when he talks. Thin lips tend to do that, lol. EDIT : teeth were fine.
Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Lab Assistant
#16 Old 10th Aug 2017 at 1:42 AM
I just noticed..... can you make it slightly more broad through the cheekbone/temple area without making it more broad through the cheek hollows/lower jaw?
Scholar
Original Poster
#17 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 2:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonja
I just noticed..... can you make it slightly more broad through the cheekbone/temple area without making it more broad through the cheek hollows/lower jaw?


Hi again

I could. But if I make his cheekbone/temple area any wider, his eye pockets will go even further to the sides of his face while they are already off-center as it is. I feel like I have to rework them to fix this.
I don't feel like I got his eyes either. In the sim they are too little, in the man the eyelids are huge, and his eyes look a bit sleepy/annoyed.

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Scholar
Original Poster
#18 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 5:35 PM
Update

Today I worked on his eye pockets. They had a weird distortion to them making them seem to stretch away from the center of the face at their bottom. I fixed this. I also tweaked his face a little. Now, what do you think?

Maybe the eyes aren't right, still. The irises seem a bit more greenish and smaller in the real-life picture than on the sim. Maybe it's time for me to start searching for eyes with even smaller irises. What do you think?

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
just a girl
#19 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 7:00 PM
(I follow the thread, just haven't got much to say.)
I like the new look in his eyes; he has a bit more Tywin in him now.
I'd say the sim is great, although he is not totally recognizable, compared to your other sims - I could tell who they are right away, without reference picture.
I hope you won't be discouraged. I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

Testers wellcome on Electrical box & Cheap rent & Fertile land
Functional sofa bed is ready to be tested as well
Lab Assistant
#20 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 9:08 PM
You are right about his eyes.... He has that definite, "We are not amused" look about him. He could easily do the "thousand mile stare".... right thru you. I wouldn't cross this guy if my life depended on it....
Scholar
Original Poster
#21 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 10:41 PM Last edited by billielith : 12th Aug 2017 at 11:03 PM.
New update

Thanks for chiming in, both of you!

I changed his eyes, tweaked his face again - brows, eyes, nose, mouth, chin. I compared his face to his actual face, and besides the fact that it is yet too narrow (Sims 2...), I believe I have the eyes/nose/mouth ratio right and they're rather close to his now.

The hair and beard are not of the same yellowish color, because when they are, he looks like another Game of Thrones character Jorah Mormont. I'll put pictures of that in my next update. As for him not being perfectly recognizable, right now I am not sure what else to do to help it.

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Mad Poster
#22 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 10:52 PM
I love that actor very much. I do not follow Game of thrones, never even saw episodes of it, no idea... but i will always remember him in the golden child
I think his chin is a tad too low/far from his mouth. And his face is still too narrow in my opinion. But wow, you are talented.

Je mange des girafes et je parle aussi français !...surtout :0)
Scholar
Original Poster
#23 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 10:54 PM Last edited by billielith : 12th Aug 2017 at 11:10 PM.
Version 8

Rosebine, hello and thank you! And I think you are right about his chin being a bit too low. The shadow in that area might be unnecessary too.
As for the entire face being too narrow, indeed! If I knew how to make a slider, I'd make one for THAT, lol.

Screenshots with yellow beard/hair. I really don't want him to be confused with Jorah (other Game of Throne character), which is why the hair/beard I chose previously were of a much paler blond, almost white.

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Scholar
Original Poster
#24 Old 12th Aug 2017 at 11:08 PM
Last update for the day, I didn't keep the yellow beard/hair, tell me if you think I should, despite the Jorah issue (see previous post). :P

Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 13th Aug 2017 at 12:56 AM
Is there a skintone out there that is freckled/aged a general....I'm getting old appearance? Of course, his wrinkles are there... but his skin, in general, looks a bit too smooth...
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